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An Interview With
CASEY MacGILL
By Allyson
After
reading the articles I found on Casey MacGill doing research for my website, I thought
that many of the topics Casey discussed were interesting, but were only touched upon
briefly. I had the pleasure of speaking with Casey recently to find out more about him and
his very intriguing and diverse career.
You started a swing
band in the 70’s. What drew you to swing music at a time when swing was not popular?
I felt a strong affinity for not only the style of music but that period of history - the
1920's and 30's. I have always felt a closeness to that era. I like not only the music,
but the cars, clothes, movies, art, architecture, graphics and art deco style. I love
trains and ocean liners, the romance of the whole style that was going on then. In the
30's, of course, there was the Great Depression which was a pretty horrible experience for
millions of people. But at the same time it was so odd because you had the art deco style
and all those movies that were conjured up to try to take people's minds off of their
hardships. You know, Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers and all of that thing, and I love
those Busby Berkeley/Warner Brothers movies with all those great songs by Harry Warren, so
that kind of drew me to it.
I had these friends who were record collectors and they knew all these obscure, different
styles of music and musicians. Whenever I'd visit this one guy's house, he always had some
interesting music on I never heard before. I remember distinctly the first time I ever
heard Bix Beiderbecke, who was a cornet player from the late 20's. He's one of my longtime
music heroes and just hearing that sound, it immediately captured my interest and excited
me. The sound of it was very appealing and I thought, "Well, what is this? What's he
doing?" and then I wanted to get involved in it musically.
So it just came to you naturally?
Yeah, sometimes I say it's reincarnation; it was very natural. I started learning
about it the late 60's. I didn't grow up with it, my parents were certainly old enough. My
mom was around, she was a young adult in the 30's. My dad was much older and they were
both around, but neither of them was listening to very much music in the house. I didn't
really get any exposure until I was like 16 or 17 and then I got very excited about it,
and a lot of other forms of music too. I like the blues a lot; I listened exclusively to
blues for two years. The first swing group I had was around 1970 or '71 and it lasted for
a couple of years. I loved it, then I started writing and arranging music right off the
bat. I had no idea what I was doing, but I just started doing it.
I was playing ukulele at that time and I spent a couple of summers out on the
street working theatre lines in Westwood, near the UCLA campus. The movies that were
playing at that time were Easy Rider and Midnight Cowboy. I played with a washboard
player; we both sang and passed the hat. We had a little route mapped out along the
theatre lines. He owned a 1947 Cadillac hearse and we used to drive down in that car from
Pasadena, an adventure in itself. In fact, we lived in that car for a while. (laughs) He
also had a '35 Chevy four-door sedan that had a bad muffler and it sounded really loud
when it drove down the street. So, that was fun. I've been into that music for a long
time.
You described yourself as a perennial college student. What did you study?
I went part time for about eight years. I started out studying music and I got a
little disillusioned with that and I went into history and African-American studies. This
was in the early 70's and the curriculum for that area of study was just being developed.
I later went back into music and ended up being a music major, but I never got a
degree. I got about 10 units away from it and then I split. I even did a senior recital on
piano, and then I had enough, and left. I was very lucky, though, because I had some
really good teachers. Colleges were just starting jazz programs also in the early
70's, and I took a class in improvising and a class in arranging.
They had a big band, but instead they called it a 'stage band.' So I had some experience
with that, but I really didn't like playing all the modern arrangements. I was always
disappointed because they didn't have any old arrangements. Everything they did was from
the 1960's or was brand new in the early 70's. I wanted to play stuff from the 20's and
30's and I would try to write these old-sounding arrangements occasionally, and it was
kind of funny. The people who were in the classes had absolutely no idea how to play them,
because they had no listening experience with old records, and didn't know how to play it
in the appropriate style. It was really kind of frustrating in that regard, but the
teaching and the classes were very good for me; I learned about instruments and how to
write for them.
Did you receive any formal voice training?
I studied about a year with an opera singer and she did give me some formal voice
training. About all that I retained from that was that I learned how to sing from my
diaphragm. I don’t create the classical tones that she taught me. I can do that, but
it took me a few years after I studied with her to integrate that training into my own
style, because there was a point for a while where I was trying to sing in an operatic
way. I went a little overboard and I had to try to find a balance.
Who are your influences?
I have so many, I’ve got lots and lots of them. Let’s break it down.
From the 20's, the early Duke Ellington, early Louis Armstrong, Bix Beiderbecke, Fletcher
Henderson, Joe Venuti, Eddie Lang. Those were some musicians from that era I listened to.
From the 30's, Louis Armstrong, there's a whole bunch of trumpet
players that were really great: Roy Eldridge, Armstrong, Bunny Berrigan, Harry James. I'm
just actually now getting to be more of a big Harry James fan. Years ago, I was into the
older guys. There was a guy in Ellington's band named Bubber Miley who was a great plunger
player, you know, it's like the thing you unstop the toilet with; you get the "wah
wah" sound from that. He was the first master at that and I really liked him a lot.
Saxophone players: Lester Young is probably one of my biggest musical heroes and I
didn’t know that much about him then, I discovered him a little bit further along.
Guitar players: Django Reinhart, Eddie Lang, Charlie Christian.
Clarinet players: Johnny Dodds, Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw. There's so many!
Vocalists: I love Louis Armstrong and Fats Waller, Nat King Cole. And then piano players, Fats Waller, I love him. Teddy Wilson, great piano player. Earl Hines, Mary Lou Williams, also Nat Cole, Erroll Garner. I like the boogie woogie guys, Albert Ammons and Pete Johnson, they're really fun.
There's a guy named Jimmy Rowles who's more of a contemporary
player. He bridged the gap between the old school and the new school. He's a big influence
on Diana Krall. That's partly why her music sounds so good, because she's gotten influence
from some good sources and he's one of the people who influenced her. I used to hear about
him in the early 70's from my music teachers because he was such a heavy drinker and there
was always stories about him being drunk and saying funny things. It was actually pretty
amazing he lived as long as he did, because he lived until a couple of years ago. He was a
great piano player.
Of course, Duke Ellington, his piano playing, writing, arranging. He's been a huge
influence on me, I think he's great. I love Fats Waller's whole attitude, his singing. I
like Cab Calloway's singing, Bing Crosby, Spirits of Rhythm, The Cats in the Fiddle, Stuff
Smith, great violin player, singer and entertainer.
Lots of influences, and that's just the older jazz. I like old rock-and-roll from the 50's
too; I like Fats Domino, Little Richard. I like all of the New Orleans rock-and-roll, all
the stuff that was written by Allan Toussaint in the early 60's. The Neville Brothers, The
Meters, Dr. John. James Booker, who's become a big hero of mine, played on some records in
the 60's and 70's. He died in the early 80's. He was Harry Connick's teacher for a while,
and he was the best of the New Orleans piano players. He's a big influence on me and also,
he was a great singer. Unfortunately, he had some bad habits. He had several bad habits,
actually. Oh, and then Ukulele Ike, he's a big influence. He was actually the guy who sang
"When You Wish Upon a Star" as Jimminy Cricket. He had a wonderful voice and
he's a big influence on me, too. I don't play the ukulele like he does, but I loved his
singing. I think he's a wonderful artist.
So, that's more than enough. (laughs)
You started country music at one point. What made you decide to try country music?
It didn’t work. I wasn’t getting any work doing what I really like to do, which
is what I am doing right now. I was trying to get money playing music. I tried it twice,
in the late 70’s when that "Urban Cowboy" thing was going and I tried it
again in the early 90’s. Each effort lasted about a year. Emotionally, it was very
bruising because I don’t have that country feeling, or soul. Country soul, I think
that’s almost an oxymoron. I think I’m just "not there." I don’t
like that twangy redneck stuff. I’m more black on the inside. I’m not one of
those good ol’ boys. The country stuff I like has a lot of blues influence in it.
Jimmie Rodgers who’s supposed to be the father of country music sang a lot of blues.
He was called the "Singing Brakeman." He came from Mississippi, so he was more
blues oriented. He actually did a recording with Louis Armstrong back in the 1930’s.
He was a wonderful singer; I like him a lot. Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys, they were
great, they were Western swing. We do a couple of Bob Wills’ most famous tunes in the
show, we briefly quote them, we don’t do them justice. I really like Bob Wills a lot.
Anything in country that is more heavily blues influenced and has a lot of swing to it.
So, I tried it and it didn’t work, not my cup of tea.
How did you get involved with Ain’t Misbehavin’?
I lived in Spokane, Washington for almost 15 years before I came here. During that time,
the Civic Theatre in Spokane did a production of Ain’t Misbehavin’. I
guess the deal is it’s supposed to be an all black band and all the featured
performers were also black. There aren’t enough African-Americans in Spokane to draw
from to make a full band to accompany that show. Well, they were able to find enough
singers to do it, but there was only one fellow in the band who was African-American, all
of the rest of us were gringos. So that was kind of an opportunity for me, because under
other circumstances, in a bigger city, I never would have had that chance. It was a great
thrill, because I love Fats Waller’s music. I got acquainted with some of the songs
that he wrote that I never played before. It took a lot of work to be able to play all
that piano, so that was really fun.
It seems like that was a high point in your career.
It was, it was great. I thought, at that time, that it would be fun to have that kind of a
job, where you could show up at the theatre, get dressed and do your show.
It ties in here then (with Swing!).
It does, because they both have stages where the band was on stage and the band would come
forward on an automated stage, so there are similarities between what I am doing now and
that.
What happened with the Spirits of Rhythm when you decided to join Swing! ?
It split. It was already in two factions when I was still there. One faction was myself
and the guy who produced the CD. The other faction was everybody else. So at that point,
the other people got together and continued to play on their own without the saxophone
player and I came here, so that’s how that came apart.
You knew that was the right time to try to see if you could get aboard with Swing!,
that was what you had to do?
Well, I watched the swing scene shrink the last year, in ’99. Then also, our band
started having some internal disagreements. After seeing those two things, I thought
I’d better take this opportunity, if it still exists, and it did. So I think I made
the right decision.
So it’s been a good experience?
Oh yeah. I mean, I didn’t know exactly what it was going to be. There’s some
things about it that I really like and there’s other things that are kind of
disappointing. But overall, I am glad to be here.
How does it feel to be on Broadway?
It feels good, although sometimes I feel like I’m cut off from the rest of the
entertainment business. I don’t know, I like my job; I like what I do. I’m a
featured performer in a show, but I’m not a star like some movie person who’s a
star or anything like that. So, I’m wondering how I take this and build on it,
because I’d like to have more of a career.
It happened so quickly that you made the call and started with the show. How was it to
realize that you were really going to be on Broadway?
Well, I called the music director on Labor Day weekend last year and then I got a call
back in the middle of the following week from the business manager of the show. When I
talked to him, that was kind of a strange feeling. I almost felt like I was outside of my
body. It wasn't anything where I celebrated or allowed myself to get excited, because I've
had a lot of things fall through over the years. So, I was determined not to count my
chickens before they were hatched and I've tried to keep to that policy. Because you say
"OK, you can be in the musical." Then let's see if I really get there. So then I
get there and I start rehearsing. "OK, let's see if the thing (show) really
opens." And then it opens and "Let's see if it doesn't close immediately."
Well it doesn't close immediately, so "Let's see if it keeps running." So, I've
had a lot of that emotional rollercoaster ride over the years with different things and I
don't want to get on that ride again. I don't want to build myself up for a fall, so I
just try to take it a day at a time and not really get too inflated about it.
Would you go on the upcoming tour of Swing! ?
It's something that they would have to offer to me. I attended a party recently with a lot
of the producers and I found out that yes, we have a tour.
It's starting on November 20 and opens in Los Angeles. It's going to run something in the
neighborhood of 35 weeks and will go all over the country. So I am excited about that. I
am open to it, it really depends on whether we can get together on the money, and I'm not
sure about whether or not I'd be able to keep my residence here in New York City. These
are all questions that would have to be answered. I don't think the producers know yet if
they want to put me on the tour, what their ideal deployment of me would be. If the show
is still running in November, would they rather have me here in town or would they rather
have me out on the road? They have to decide if they want to put me on the tour, then I
have to decide, and we have to get together and agree to terms. I am open to it. I am from
L.A., so it would be nice to spend some time there, have another little chapter there.
There's a lot of the country I haven't seen and that would be a fun way to see the country
even though you are working most of the time. I don't have a family or anything like that.
I am totally on my own, so I don't have the family considerations that a lot people do.
I'm very portable that way.
You credit Jerry Zaks with giving you invaluable coaching. In what way did he help you
prepare for Swing! ?
Ah, Mr. Z! He explained the vignette "2 and 4"; what was going on, what to
think at certain moments, to define facial expressions, etc. It was a real learning
experience. He also gave me the concept to the opening of the show; how to approach
it. He has definite ideas of what's happening in crucial places, and it was very
valuable.
Was it difficult to get used to living in New York City?
It was very different. In L.A. you need a car and in New York you don't want a car.
A car is a liability, not an asset. But I came from Eastern Washington and that really did
take some getting used to.
What other projects do you hope to pursue? How long would you stay with the Broadway
production?
I'd like to stay with the show as long as possible. I'd also like to start trying to get
myself into doing movies. I'd like to do some small roles and hopefully work into some
bigger ones later. Just some small speaking roles. I've been watching Variety and they are
making a movie called Pearl Harbor. That's going to be a big Disney blockbuster. If it's a
movie that has a cast of thousands, I'd sure like to be in there somewhere, just in a
small role with a few speaking parts. There's also going to a movie about John Dillinger,
the famous gangster from the early 30's and so I would love to be in that.
Are you auditioning now?
No, I’ve talked to some agents, but that’s been one of the disappointing things
about Broadway, that you don’t automatically get an agent just because you’re in
a show. They only want to work with the people that are already getting booked, so I have
to go through a whole bunch of people before I find one that’s willing to take me on,
as more of a project, even though I’m working now. All it means is that they’ll
give me a few minutes to tell me ‘no’ as opposed to somebody else who would not
even get past the secretary. The secretary would just field the call and you’d never
hear from them. So that’s been disappointing, but hopefully I’ll have the
persistence to find somebody to represent me. I don’t take that stuff too well, which
explains why it took me so long to get this far.
Is there anyone you would like to work with?
Absolutely. I'd love to work with Bette Midler. I'm a big fan of hers. She did a
movie called For the Boys and I think I would have a lot made a better person in
the James Caan role than he did. I think it's very curious that Bette is such a great
talent and such a great actress, but she's had such bad luck with the leading men that
she's ended up being with. I know that she
produced that movie with her friend, they have a production company called All Girl
Productions. But for some reason, she didn't end up with somebody that had good chemistry
with her. I think the only actor that really comes to mind that she had pretty good
chemistry with was when she did Down and Out In Beverly Hills and she had a
little fling with Nick Nolte. I thought that was pretty funny, I had really enjoyed the
scenes they had together. I haven't seen that movie Drowning Mona yet. I want to
see that. I'd love to work with her.
That director, Julie Taymor, who did The Lion King and The Green Bird, she
seems to be very creative. I’m curious about Stephen Sondheim’s music. I’ve
been into another, earlier generation and as I’m starting to become aware of his
work, I’m really appreciating it.
I’d love to get into films. I like Jim Jarmusch, an independent filmmaker. And I love
all the stuff the Coen Brothers have done; they really are great filmmakers. They did Fargo;
they did Miller’s Crossing. They’ve got a movie coming out, it
doesn’t have a title yet, but they call it "The Barber Project." It’s
a period piece; Billy Bob Thornton plays a barber who’s a philanderer. And his wife
in the movie is Frances McDormand, who played the policeman in Fargo. It’s
supposed to be kind of a ‘film noir’ thing and I’d love to get myself in
that. Those stories were great. There’s a lot of people I’d like to work with.
I’m really fortunate to be working with the people in the show. They are really
talented. Jerry Zaks is a very seasoned director and it’s always fun to see him when
he drops by the theatre. He definitely has a great show biz vibe.
Most of my acting heroes are no
longer living on earth, so as far as contemporary actors and stuff, I guess I’m more
interested in directors and music people.
To start that movie career?
(Nods) Mmm hmm. I'd like to play music too, but I'm a swing musician and it's a limited
market and it's a tough row to hoe. I'd rather try to get a career doing something else
like movies or be like a character actor. Then I can make the occasional CD on my own time
and it wouldn't have all the pressure of trying to be in the music business, it's a
nightmare.
You mentioned a CD in the works, and that you have many new songs, but it might not be a
possibility due to the inability to promote the CD when you are with the show, and that
you do not have a band.
I don’t know how that will ever get done. I have a whole album’s worth, but I
don’t know I’d get to do any of it. I just hope the show will keep going.
As you said earlier, you’ll stay with it as long as you can.
Sure, until I get an attractive proposal.
I’d like to thank you very much for agreeing to the interview and for taking the time
from your busy schedule.
Well, lunch with two attractive ladies.....I can make time for that!
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